Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan in an interview with Dawat

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan in an interview with Dawat:

Many factors played a role in the fall of the republic
The people of Afghanistan have no aspirations, they are hungry and want bread, they cannot protect themselves and their families from cold and heat, they face poverty.

The Dawat Media Center has done valuable media and cultural work over the past 34 years. Thirty-four years is a long time. Dawat has traveled a long path and has emerged from many difficulties.
Happy 34th anniversary of Dawat’s active years!

Note: This interview was published in issue #244 of Dawat magazine and is now being shared with Dawat Media’s 24 readers and supporters.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: In your opinion, what caused the fall of the Afghan system on August 15 last year?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: Although the sudden fall of the republic on August 15, 2021, was considered by many as an unexpected event that no one anticipated, I do not see it that way. The collapse of the republican system was a logical process and a dynamic sequence of events. The main reason for the collapse was the weakening of trust in the system’s survival among ordinary people and the system’s defenders. This lack of trust did not happen suddenly but gradually deepened and solidified. The fall of the republic became certain when the Americans signed a deal with the Taliban in Doha on February 29, 2020, without the participation of the Afghan government. For whatever reason, the Americans through this agreement effectively discredited the republican government and introduced the Taliban as the future rulers of Afghanistan. Even before this, the regional powers’ mindset was not aligned with the American presence in Afghanistan, which helped solidify the Taliban’s position. The morale of the system’s defenders — the armed forces (army, intelligence, and police) — depended on foreign support, and when that support was cut, their fighting spirit broke. The government was corrupt, incompetent, and ineffective. As you can see, many factors contributed to the fall of the republic.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Some senior officials and former President Ashraf Ghani are blamed for the system’s fall and held responsible. In your opinion, who should be held accountable?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: President Ghani is certainly responsible, but the responsibility does not lie with him alone. He was the Commander-in-Chief of the country’s armed forces. Every president is responsible for protecting the country’s independence, territorial integrity, and constitution. Undoubtedly, former President Dr. Ashraf Ghani is not exempt from this responsibility. He is responsible for the collapse of the system but not alone in this responsibility. Unfortunately, from ministers to officers, governors to lower officials — all share responsibility for the fall. Ghani failed because he did not form a competent, committed, knowledgeable, and united team dedicated to national interests to defend the system. The reality is that Ashraf Ghani was an intelligent person but thought his intelligence alone was enough to fix everything, which was his biggest flaw.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Many believe the system fell from within, with internal factors and groups like the Northern Alliance responsible for weakening the system over the last 20 years and monopolizing power and rights, preventing the system from standing on its own. How much truth is there in this?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: As I said before, many internal and external factors played a role in the fall. There is no doubt that the Northern Alliance was very privileged during the last twenty years of the republic. Because during the first Taliban regime (1996–2001), the Northern Alliance was the only domestic power remaining, holding areas like Panjshir and Badakhshan. After the arrival of foreign forces, they regained strength through weapons and money, helping to defeat the Taliban, or the foreigners helped them. However, the reality was that there was no other organized force against the Taliban for the foreigners to rely on except them. So the foreigners depended on them, and the sources of power and wealth fell into their hands. The alliance claimed power and wealth as their rightful reward as saviors of jihad and resistance, and over the past twenty years, they committed corruption and parallel government activities, which weakened and discredited the republic system in the eyes of Afghans and the international community.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Some people do not recognize the Afghan national flag, anthem, or name, although they controlled most of the government for the last 20 years, and now speak of national resistance. Do you think anything can come from them, given that they fled when they had everything and did nothing else? What can they do now?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: These people are the remnants of that alliance who call the first fight for power “the first resistance” and this fight “the second resistance.” They lack a national agenda and do not represent all of Afghanistan. In their view, the Taliban belong to one ethnic group, so if the Taliban govern, that group rules. They think if the Taliban rule Panjshir, it is injustice, but if they rule Kandahar, Nangarhar, Paktia, Helmand, Farah, or Herat, it doesn’t matter because those are “Taliban areas.” They raise slogans about democracy, human rights, women’s education and work, and other civil rights, but sadly, these are mostly superficial, hypocritical, and designed to attract international attention. To their people, they say the Taliban provide ethnic rule over the whole country and other groups must resist and fight (!) them. This stance isolates and weakens them from a national agenda. I think such local resistance only leads to bloodshed without results.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Many Afghans believe the Doha agreement between the U.S. and Taliban destroyed the previous government and achievements of the last 20 years, sidelined the Afghan government, and handed power to the Taliban through this agreement. How much do you agree?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: At the start of the Doha negotiations, Afghans and the international community were hopeful that after 40 years of war, a lasting peace would emerge. But when the Americans and Taliban sidelined the Afghan government, supporters and opponents realized this was the beginning of the system’s collapse. Supporters’ morale weakened, while opponents including domestic opposition became more active. People like Hamid Karzai, Dr. Abdullah, Rasul Sayaf, Atta Muhammad Nur, Rashid Dostum, Muhammad Mohaqiq, Khalili, and others, whether in government or opposition, gradually moved closer to the Taliban, asking to join peace delegations to secure a place of honor alongside them. But the result was the opposite—no one retained honor.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Why did the Americans suddenly leave Afghanistan, abandoning the work, money, and soldiers they sacrificed over 20 years? Does this indicate hypocrisy and double standards by the U.S. and Western countries?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: Hypocrisy and double standards have always been part of colonialist policy. They do whatever is necessary to protect their interests. They do not respect commitments but only their own interests. Colonizers consider all means legitimate to secure their interests. They do not care about other nations’ fate. As Mr. Khalilzad said, “America does not need permission from anyone to enter or leave Afghanistan.” The Americans came for their goals, and after 20 years, they no longer saw the same path as suitable to achieve them. They probably planned a new approach, which we do not yet understand. It is clear that America is changing its form of presence in Afghanistan and the region, building proxies to maintain influence. Currently, Pakistan, Qatar, UAE, and other regional powers are competing to be America’s proxies. It is unclear who America will entrust with Afghanistan’s affairs, but it will keep its interests.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What is the reason for America’s trust and alliance with Pakistan?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: Since the British left the Indian subcontinent, Pakistan has remained a loyal and obedient state to the British and Americans. Pakistan has benefited greatly from this relationship, becoming a nuclear power under Western protection. It was a reliable partner in the Soviet-Afghan war, helping the U.S. and Western powers defeat pro-Soviet regimes from Daud Khan to Dr. Najibullah. Pakistan has received billions of dollars from America in the name of Afghan jihad and fighting terrorism, and still receives aid. Even now, there is no reliable base in the region for Americans besides Pakistan. So their alliance benefits both and neither wants to lose the other.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What is your opinion on the Taliban government?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: The Taliban fought a long war and reached power as victors. Now they rule the entire country. The war that previously claimed hundreds of lives daily has ended with their victory. The Taliban claim to have brought peace and security, but peace is not their government’s wisdom. Previously there was no peace because the Taliban fought the government. Now there is no broad nationwide threat against the Taliban, but this does not mean people are satisfied with them. The Taliban still act like a religious militant group, lacking the capacity to run a modern government. They have no skilled professionals; their cabinet consists mainly of clerics and madrassa graduates. They distrust non-Taliban Afghans’ ability and skills. They have no clear policies for economic development and job creation. In lawmaking, they rely on general Islamic principles and clerical fatwas. By disrespecting the national flag, anthem, art, music, Nowruz, New Year, and closing girls’ schools and women’s work, they have aroused hatred nationally and internationally. Due to these and other factors, the Taliban government has not yet gained national or international legitimacy and faces many challenges.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: How do you see the future of Afghanistan?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: I am always optimistic and never lose hope for the country’s prosperity! But Afghanistan’s future depends on whether the ruling authority embraces elements of change and progress or not. If the Taliban’s rule accepts the capacity for change, does not view the system of statehood and governance solely from the perspective of clerics and religious schools, does not confine girls and women to their homes as they currently do, separates and specifies the three branches of government, grants non-Taliban Afghans the right and authority to work and participate in these branches, ensures political and civil freedoms for the people, and considers national values as paramount and respected above all else, then the excuses for wars and revolts will end. If this does not happen, given the current conditions where the doors of knowledge, innovation, change, and progress are closed, I do not see any reason for hope or happiness.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What is the most serious threat facing Afghanistan today?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: Lasting peace and stability are vital for Afghanistan. I acknowledge that under the Taliban there is no war like before. But mere absence of war cannot be called peace. The people’s dissatisfaction and causes of conflict still remain. One side of the conflict (the republicans) has failed, but peace is not achieved by one side failing and the other succeeding. Peace and stability come from agreement and consent between opposing sides, which unfortunately do not exist. The major threat is that dissatisfied Afghans will once again seek refuge under foreign powers, who will form proxies within them as before, continuing proxy wars. In my opinion, foreigners will be reluctant to launch another military intervention in Afghanistan, but they can create or revive proxies to keep the Taliban engaged in an endless conflict. Unfortunately, many domestic and foreign actors consider the Taliban as representatives of Pashtuns and their rule as Pashtun rule. Because of this, fear and hatred of the Taliban turns into fear and hatred of Pashtuns, causing ethnic strife among Afghanistan’s groups, which is very difficult to prevent.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What must be done to prevent these dangers?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: The causes of war must be eliminated. If the republic has collapsed, then the causes of war still remain. Political, civil, economic rights, and security of work and life are not guaranteed. People are uncertain about their country’s future, either fleeing it or like the village of Hadira, forced to remain silent. This situation must be healed. People must gain confidence in freedom of life, education, civil, political, economic, and social activity in their country and have the right to vote in determining the country’s fate. If the Afghan people are truly regarded as believers, then the leader or Amir al-Mu’minin should be elected by the believers — that is, by the Afghan people’s vote. This kind of rule — whatever its name — is called inclusive governance. If the Taliban want threats and problems against their rule to decrease or end, these things are essential.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What is the Taliban’s problem? Is it that the world does not understand them, or that they cannot understand the world?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: The Taliban’s problem is primarily with their own countrymen. The Taliban believe Afghanistan has no history except the time of the Companions of the Prophet, or if it has any history, it started with Shah Doshamshera. They consider national history, identity, Nowruz (New Year), national customs, traditions, songs, music, folklore, theater, cinema, acting, painting, engraving, fine arts, and similar values worthless. Those who preserve and support these values are under the Taliban’s physical and psychological pressure. The younger generation sees the global development of these values and cannot bear the domestic suppression of them. This is a major intellectual problem, and the Taliban are in conflict with both their countrymen and the international community because of this.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Considering the Taliban’s work, achievements, and decrees over the past nearly one year, will their rule last?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: There is no war under the Taliban, mainly because the republican side failed. During the republic, warlords had power islands and local authorities, which disappeared the very day the republic fell. It is said that private and state properties taken by the usurpers have been freed, also from the first day, because the major usurpers fled the country with the republic’s collapse. Since that first day, I have seen no progress politically, economically, socially, or culturally; rather, there has been increasing regression. The country’s trained cadres, capital, and capacities for development are fleeing. If the Taliban do not develop the capacity for change, I do not consider their rule sustainable.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Is war a solution to oppose the Taliban’s rule, or are Afghans too tired of war to fight further?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: It is true that Afghans are tired of wars, and the last 45 years have shown that war is not a solution to problems. But those who fight have their reasons: they say no one listens to them in peace, and rulers do not consider their views, so they are forced to fight. After the US invasion in 2001 until around 2010 or 2012, the Taliban faced similar issues. Early on, Mr. Khalilzad excluded the Taliban from the Bonn Agreement. During this “golden” era of democracy and republic, the US and Afghan government did not even allow the Taliban to live in Afghanistan, let alone political activity or participation in power. They filled prisons like Guantanamo, Charkhi, and Bagram with Taliban detainees, killed them in containers, and committed many atrocities. All such forcibly taken (revolutionary) powers become intoxicated with power and wealth and fail to properly assess the situation. Now it is the Taliban’s turn with this intoxication.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: If war is not the solution, what paths are there for the Taliban to be accepted by the people and for the people to determine their own future?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: War is definitely not the solution. The key to the solution is now in the Taliban’s hands. The key lies in the value called democracy. The Taliban claim they have popular support. If that is true, why do they not seek the people’s vote for domestic legitimacy of rule? The people’s vote resolves every problem. The people’s representatives will determine the type of government, decide on the constitution, the system’s name, the national flag, anthem, and other principles, pray for the legitimacy of rule, and this will also open the way to solving external problems.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: If the Taliban continue with their policy of “my house is mine, the people’s voice is the Mullah’s authority,” what is the solution? Where is the problem—in the Afghan people or the Taliban?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: As I said earlier, there is no problem with the nation. The problem is with the rulers, because the nation is currently a headless and disorganized mass. Rulers do not delegate power to anyone for national unity because they see danger in it. But if they listen to the nation’s needs and try to find solutions, the problem can be eased. But if the Taliban think they are the smartest, most capable, and strongest because they defeated the world’s superpower, then the old Mullah and old prayers will continue. I do not see a way out in that.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Until the Taliban gain legitimacy from the Afghan people, will their government continue and will the world recognize it?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: Obtaining the people’s vote and consent is the first and most essential thing. Without this, recognition is first impossible, and if it happens, what meaning does it have? A hungry nation will always wait for recognition and live on others’ charity. Recognition depends on our internal and national identity. If only clerics and madrasa graduates represent our national identity, recognition is impossible and useless.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What is your view on the Taliban’s hostility toward education, schools, and women?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: If each Taliban is asked separately, no one would say they oppose girls’ education or women working; each would claim to support education and work for women in general terms. If questioned further, many Taliban leaders’ daughters study modern schools abroad (Pakistan or Qatar) and pursue higher education. But collectively, the Taliban follow one ideology: that of a backward village or rural area, or at best, a religious school mentality. If you go to a backward rural village economically and socially, you will find no problem with the Taliban’s actions because the people there are accustomed to hardship, backwardness, illiteracy, and lack of basic health services, and see it as normal. Coming out of this deprivation seems like disbelief to them. I am somewhat familiar with rural life in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, where similar rural-urban mentality differences exist. Therefore, the Taliban mentality is not tied to a particular region or ethnicity but is generally a backward and deprived rural mentality. The duty of a modern human being is to bring their people and environment out of this deprivation. Our people must live dignified, healthy lives with access to basic health services and protection from contagious diseases. This is achieved through education and learning. The backward rural mentality cannot accomplish this. Change is necessary, so that rural and urban mentalities come closer, not so that the rural mentality dominates the urban.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: In a country where the doors of knowledge and progress are closed, how do you see the future of that country?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: The future of the people of such a country is dark, a victim of ignorance, unfortunate, backward, weak, powerless, and dependent on others throughout their lives.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Why have Afghans not been able, in these past twenty years, to truly form a national, Afghanistan-wide, and Afghan-inclusive movement, organization, or party?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: This is a very important and necessary issue and a matter of my hopes. The systems of developed countries in the world are not heavenly, but earthly, built through intelligent and advanced political movements. A political movement that understands the concrete and mental realities and priorities of society, and with a scientific and practical program on the agenda, creates a broad national movement within society. Such a movement gives people, especially the youth, a broad nationwide vision and can act as a shield against all kinds of destructive forces.

In Afghanistan, as a result of a prolonged civil war, small ethnic and local fiefdoms and parallel islands of power were created. People, hoping for their own protection, took refuge in their ethnic and regional commanders and strongmen, considered them as their only support, and in every sense, were ready to serve and obey them for survival.

In the organizational repression of the 1990s, it was impossible to mention a broad national movement; at that time every party was attached to an Islamic prefix or suffix, and the word “national” was considered heresy. People were confused about which Islam was genuine to unite under.

Afterwards, during the last twenty years of the republic, more than a hundred small and large political groups emerged, and under the name of democracy, political anarchy reached the extent that even a group of ten would claim to be a political party.

At the beginning of the republic, among political efforts, some of our like-minded colleagues founded a political movement called the “Afghanistan National Party” based on national thought, which received good response and welcome in the capital and provinces during its early days. But unfortunately, no political party during the republic years could establish itself in the political arena based on the rationality of its program and political design; instead, the jihadi organizational groups monopolized the political space by force.

The issue of national thought was not considered important because the national thinkers did not possess the means of force and power, and on the other hand, colonialism under the veil of globalization blocked the progress of national ideas.

I have even heard that some officials used to say Afghanistan does not need a strong army because the territorial integrity and national security are guaranteed by international friends.

In any case, during the republic years, we tried with many colleagues and friends to form such a broad national movement. In one way or another, we have reached many friends inside and outside the country for broad national awakening and unity.

Initially, we heard from many awakened people that politics is useless and a disgraceful thing. Social and cultural activities are better, at least they carry no risk of disgrace. Everyone should progress by his own personal talents and once they reach a certain point, they should propose big national service plans from there. They believed politics had not produced good results in Afghanistan. Many intellectuals even echoed former President Hamid Karzai’s words: “It was the political parties that spoiled everything!”

With hope to help and coordinate the formation of a broad, Afghanistan-wide national movement, in 2011 I reached out to the late Afghan poet, writer, historian, researcher, and journalist Abdul Bari Jahani, believing that many deep mutual differences have passed between former leftist and rightist politicians, and a personality like Jahani could unify and connect them in national thought. At that time, Mr. Jahani considered such a broad gathering necessary for the national agenda. He told me that he had no previous political experience but would not hesitate to support if other intellectuals called for such a broad national gathering.

With this hope, my efforts, though inexperienced, reached Mr. Dr. Ashraf Ghani. On the evening of December 29, 2013, some friends and I visited his home. He was planning to run for the presidential elections. We supported his candidacy and expressed our intention to back him. I said something to him that surprised him — perhaps no one had ever said that before. I told him: “We support your candidacy and would be very happy if you win and become president. But if you fail, some of my friends might be upset, but I won’t. Our country needs leadership for a broad, Afghanistan-wide political movement. If you fail, it would be better to join forces with other sincere national intellectuals to establish such a broad national movement.” I gave examples of other political leaders around the world. I also told him that right now he is forced to keep Abdul Rashid Dostum, Atta Mohammad Noor, Mohammad Mohaqiq, Rasul Sayaf, Ismail Khan, Zahir Qadir, and Kandahari brothers happy with political bribes to get their votes for his seat and position. But if a political party based on national thought had roots in all regions and tribes of Afghanistan, then like-minded people would speak with one voice and deliver their message to the whole country, without the need for political bribery.

Mr. Ashraf Ghani smiled and promised that whether he succeeds or fails in the elections, he would pay special attention to fill this gap.

For better or worse, Dr. Ashraf Ghani became president. Why in six or seven years of his rule he put a big stone on this idea, he has explained in his memoirs for future generations.

In this path, our efforts also reached Mr. Mohammad Hanif Atmar, who resigned as head of the National Security Council and planned to run for presidency. When he came to Moscow for talks with Afghan politicians regarding negotiations with the Taliban, we told him directly that organizing a broad Afghanistan-wide political movement based on national thought is more important and better than presidency. He agreed but later withdrew from candidacy and perhaps did not pay much attention to the political movement idea and became busy with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Overall, I think foreign interference and reliance on foreigners in the past twenty years have corrupted the political atmosphere so much that everyone became more concerned with their own interests than political thought.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Afghanistan, due to its location, is caught in the games of strong and greedy neighbors and global powers. Now, when knowledge and progress are blocked and many educated and intellectual Afghans have left or are leaving the country, how can Afghanistan confront these great challenges under a religious regime?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: Indeed, this long misery of our country comes from our neighbors. They keep the war game hot in our country through their proxies. Every time they create new excuses for war, which always leads to the collapse of the central government.

The greatest misfortune is that every time the system collapses fundamentally, our educated and trained cadres are forced to leave the country. The homeland becomes empty of trained personnel; it then takes decades to train a new generation, and the same game repeats again.

Our politicians need to embrace each other within the definition of national interests and openly admit that only when our country is free from dependency on others can we live a dignified life in peace and stability.

Even in Iran, where clerics have ruled for more than forty years, their national interests are highly respected. They do not allow foreign proxies to operate in ways that harm Iran’s national interests.

If during school and madrasa education we learn about national interests and commit to protecting them, then our geographical location will become very beneficial to us. Our country would become a crossroads of trade, transit, and exchange between north and south, east and west. Then we would expect friendship and mutual cooperation from our neighbors instead of threats.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What do you hear from your contacts inside Afghanistan? What do people say and want?

Dr. Shir Hassan Hassan: Dear Bazgar Sahib, we all know the basic needs of the people. People have no comfort; they are hungry and want bread. They have no means to protect themselves and their families from cold and heat. People suffer from poverty. They want work to be saved from poverty and unemployment.

Right now, many people have been harmed in Paktika, Khost, and Paktia due to the earthquake. Many have become homeless and shelterless. They are waiting for help at the doorstep of God. Afghan expatriates worldwide are actively trying to collect aid for the affected compatriots.

As I answer your questions now, I am talking with my Afghan compatriots in Russian cities (Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Krasnodar, Rostov, Pyatigorsk, Ivanovo, Volgograd, Kazan, and others) about how to gather help for earthquake and flood victims. May God bless our people; they are collecting aid in every city and everyone contributes according to their capacity, for which I thank all.

But aid is not enough; government actions are needed for self-sufficiency. People are quite disappointed in this regard. Besides the priority of food and clothing, people are not confident about the future education of their children. School doors are closed for girls, and vocational education certificates mean nothing for boys. Many educated people are trying to leave the country. Their homeland is not a safe place for people, and this is the greatest disappointment and misfortune.

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Mohammed Tariq Bazger: In general, what message do you have for Afghans? What responsibilities does each Afghan have toward their country and people, and what should they do in this sensitive and difficult time?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: Afghans are divided into two groups: the rulers and the powerless. The powerless are many, and the rulers are few, but the power to act is in the hands of the rulers. Those who have recently been removed from power threaten war and armed opposition, which I consider wrong and harmful. However, they say their voices are not heard, and for this reason, they are compelled to fight. On the other hand, the rulers, who have come to power in a revolutionary and victorious manner, have not yet felt the responsibility of governance. They are still celebrating their victory and are not concerned about solving problems. They claim to have defeated the world’s top superpower. The ruling group still considers suicide bombers as their own. Suicide bombers, who do not value their own lives, truly cannot be confronted by anyone. But victory should be for a good and prosperous human life. If not, those who extend a hand for help to others will never be free or successful. Freedom should be for life; freedom for a graveyard is not worth the sacrifice.

To those who have come to new power and those who have lost it, I call on all to respect the will of the people. Rulers should open the way for political and civil activities so that people can express their demands through peaceful political struggle to all compatriots. Our people now understand well the difference between good and bad, but they want the right to choose. Unfortunately, the right to choose between good and bad has been taken away from the people. Until people have the right to choose, the problem will not be solved.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: What message do you have especially for Afghans living abroad? What can they do for their country, and how can they support their compatriots in these difficult times?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: Indeed, Afghans living abroad are a great material and spiritual asset for the country. It is estimated that roughly 8 to 10 million Afghans live outside the country. This means that every fourth or fifth person of the country’s population has emigrated. Despite all kinds of difficulties, the work and living conditions of Afghans abroad are better compared to inside the country. Afghans abroad should not forget their families and remaining relatives in these difficult times. They should help financially as much as they can. Spiritually and intellectually, Afghans abroad should not forget their national identity under the name Afghan. The Jewish people living away from their ancestral lands have a very successful experience. The country called Israel was established from abroad and now is a small but very successful and self-sufficient country among many rich Arab states. If Afghans abroad keep their national identity and do not turn their backs on their homeland’s fate, maybe I won’t be here and neither will we, but I believe that with the help of future generations of Afghans abroad, Afghanistan will become independent from others’ dependence and prosper.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: You have been living in Russia for a long time. Could you briefly tell us about the number, life, and activities of Afghans there?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: There is no exact information about the number of Afghans in Russia. On one hand, many Afghans who came to Russia have either registered or moved on from Russia to Europe, America, or Canada, either through the UN or at their own expense. This process is constantly changing, and no Afghan, Russian, or international organization can provide precise statistics. In the 1990s, it was estimated there were about 150,000 Afghans, later about 100,000, and now around 50,000. The first wave of Afghan migration to Russia began in April 1992 after the collapse of the Najibullah regime, when mujahideen groups began fighting among themselves. At that time, Russia had no immigration laws, and there was lawlessness in many aspects of life. Afghans arriving in Russia received a document from the UN stating that they were Afghan refugees and could be helped, but the police did not treat this as official registration. Many Afghans were fined, searched, and had money taken from their pockets. That period also saw newly opened trade routes. Afghan Hindus came to Russia, especially Moscow, bringing goods from China, Taiwan, and South Korea, selling mostly to other Afghans, who then sold these goods in new markets called “rink” in Russian. Over time, ordinary Afghans registered themselves in educational institutions, obtained visas, and learned how to travel to China, many starting small businesses from there. The first generation of Afghan migrants in Russia still mostly survives through small businesses. No Afghan migrant has received state social assistance and sustains themselves through their own efforts. The second generation of Afghan migrants are professionals—some doctors, some engineers, some teachers—working in government and private institutions. Thankfully, the difficulties faced by the first generation are no longer prevalent.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: If I may ask a personal question, what are you currently busy with, and how do you spend your days?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: I have already told you about the first generation of Afghan migrants’ work and life; my situation is exactly the same as I described. I graduated from university in Tajikistan in May 1992. At that time, the regime changed in Kabul, and fighting started between mujahideen groups. That year, only 68 Afghans graduated from the medical institute; we could not return to the country. We scattered—some went here, some there. I stayed in Tajikistan and started working in a hospital. Shortly afterward, in August 1992, the Islamic opposition gained strength in Tajikistan and fighting began there as well. I came to Russia in November 1992 and since then have lived like other Afghans in Russia. I have a small business, teach Pashto at Moscow State University’s Institute of Asian and African Countries named after Lomonosov, and am involved in social, cultural, and political activities. In short, I am content with my fate, fully engaged in my family, social, political, and cultural environment. I do not have free time for anyone’s idle talk, and my wish is that I had more time for study.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: Recently, you have participated in many discussions and interviews with Afghan TV channels, and your views mostly align with the majority of Afghans’ wishes. Have the Taliban ever asked you for cooperation, or have they listened to and acted on your opinions?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: Yes, journalists are like Chinese traders; there is no corner of the world they do not reach. I don’t know how they find my phone number, but they call me saying they are from a foreign media outlet and want my opinion and an interview. If I have time, I don’t lie to them; I speak from my heart. Perhaps they understand that I speak sincerely, without complicated formulas, and I do not cause headaches for others. I support democracy and republicanism in my thinking. Of course, my idea of democracy does not mean I want the rule of Hamid Karzai or Ashraf Ghani. I believe state governance should not be considered something descended from the sky where no one has the right to doubt. People must have the right to vote and choose their rulers; this is called democracy or republicanism. The Taliban have not asked me for cooperation, but some senior Taliban figures have asked for my opinion. I have sent my ideas directly to some Taliban leaders and also express them through media, hoping some powerful people will see. My message is clear, simple, and straightforward. People who do not have the right to choose their system live in occupation and slavery. For a slave, what difference does it make whether the master is domestic or foreign? If the Taliban realize their benefit and accept democracy, their rule will be better than others because people will feel free from occupation and corruption. If not, the Taliban will continue as before, and once again the country and people will be ruined and drenched in blood. Meanwhile, I do not insult anyone, and politics is not part of my life struggles.

Mohammed Tariq Bazger: The Dawat Media Center has been conducting cultural activities from Norway for 34 years. What is your opinion of our work? How can we (Dawat Media Center) improve and effectively deliver our media services to our compatriots inside and outside the country?

Dr. Sher Hasan Hasan: Dawat Media Center has performed valuable media and cultural work over the past 34 years. Thirty-four years is a long time; Dawat has gone a long way and overcome many difficulties. During these years, many changes have occurred in the world and Afghanistan. Many governments and regimes have come and gone in Afghanistan, and the world has changed as well. Amid all these changes, Dawat has remained committed to its mission. It has maintained contact with Afghans scattered around the world, gathered opinions from Afghan and non-Afghan experts on various topics, and delivered these to its readers in Pashto and Dari. Dawat’s readers are scattered worldwide, and maintaining postal, electronic, and telephone contact with all of them is a difficult task, but Dawat’s organization has continued this difficult work without resting. When online publications were not widespread, Dawat bore the costs of printing and postage itself, something that even governments and large companies sometimes do not do properly, but Dawat has remained honest and devoted to serving Afghans with a strong will. Now that most activities are electronic and online, Dawat has enhanced its efforts and commitments more than ever. I appreciate and respect it. Congratulations on the 35th anniversary of Dawat’s active life!